On a rainy morning in mid-October, the two candidates for mayor in Northampton arrived at the Advocate’s office before 8 a.m. Each man came alone—no campaign staff, no audience. For the next two hours, City Council president and acting mayor David Narkewicz and his challenger, former city councilor Michael Bardsley, fielded questions from Advocate editors Tom Vannah and Mark Roessler. Each candidate had two minutes to respond to a question. Editors reserved the right to follow up on key points at the end of the questioning, allowing a back-and-forth between the candidates, who would then have a final four minutes each to wrap up.
Below is an edited transcript of the exchange. A complete transcript, including a number of questions we don’t have room for below, is available here.
Explain your campaign slogans this year (Narkewicz: “Moving a Great City Forward.” Bardsley: “Everybody’s Mayor”).
Michael Bardsley: My slogan represents folks who feel they’ve not been heard or listened to, not been part of the decision making, not part of the dialog. And there’s an increasing perception in the city that some decisions aren’t made on their merits. They’re not made in the public forum: they’re made in back rooms or behind closed doors. It really goes to inclusion and transparency.
It also refers to one of my main points from two years ago as well as this year: [it] is becoming increasingly difficult for working, middle-class people to live in Northampton. I’m referring to retirees, families who want to buy a home for the first time. This is a pretty challenging place for people to live. I hear that. When we’re making decisions, we need to be making them for the entire community. There are a lot of pockets in the community where they feel disenfranchised and not listened to….
I’ve walked around downtown, talked to the business owners there, and they don’t feel connected to City Hall. Several of them said they’d been in business 16 years or more, and they’d never seen the mayor.
David Narkewicz: I sort of start with the premise that Northampton is a great city. We’ve been a leader on a lot of different issues, and I think we’re still the envy of a lot of towns and cities across the country, so part of the message I want to bring is, how do we keep Northampton strong and focus on the challenges ahead to keep it moving in a positive direction? I think there’s a sense that we need to keep focusing on things that bring economic opportunity to the city: making sure we can create jobs and sustain the great local businesses that we have. I think we’re unique in that we have a really strong core of local businesses. We have an independent bookstore, for goodness’ sakes. A lot of other towns and cities have lost that. We have so many great independent restaurants, art galleries, things like hardware stores.
So, economic opportunity and jobs. Keeping the city livable. … And livability means a lot of things: it means keeping it affordable, obviously; it means having safe streets and neighborhoods; it means dealing with issues like sustainability and keeping the city green. The other piece of it is that our educational system is really a core element of our city: our public schools. …
During the debate about the override two years ago—voters passed it by a large margin—the city threatened to close an elementary school and turn it into condos. How will you steer the city clear of the need for another override, and if we face another budget crisis, will our schools again be the first on the chopping block?
DN: I think the override is sort of a measure of last resort. In the history of Proposition 2 1/2, we’ve only passed two in 30 years. We’ve done some debt exclusion overrides, but you know, I think it’s a broken system that we rely on property taxes; that we have it capped at a level—2 1/2 percent—that doesn’t represent the actual growth of [municipal] budgets and health care and things like that. So, in terms of how we deal with this budget issue, which is reoccurring every year, I don’t think we can rely on overrides. I think we did one in a very severe situation. I stood up for it. I thought it was the right thing to do so that we wouldn’t have to lay off teachers, police, firefighters. So we could try to cut spending but also ask the taxpayers to help us with this process, and they did. Overwhelmingly.
In terms of how can we avoid that situation, I think first of all, we have to try to expand our tax base… our commercial tax base especially. I think we need to take advantage of the small amount of developable land we have, but really try to maximize that so we can grow the tax base without putting pressure on homeowners. I think we also need to look at other revenue sources. I mean, we’ve done everything we can do in terms of the meals tax, hotel taxes, and parking. So we also need to look to our state leaders and we have to lobby for reform in terms of our tax system.
I also think we really have to look at our city budget. Are there ways we can deliver services more smartly, more effectively? I’m really going to try to revamp the budget process to figure out if there’s ways we can do things differently. Because people depend on the city. We’re where the rubber hits the road; we’re the ones delivering the key services: the plowing, the fire, the schools, the police protection. I’m going to innovate and figure out how we can do that so that we don’t always need to have those budget pressures every year.
MB: I have supported, I believe, all of the overrides in the past, and I’ve been in the leadership for the building overrides: for the high school and for the middle school. Last time around, I did express my concern, again, about how this override seemed to be hitting some families harder than others, so that was definitely a concern, but I still supported the override.
I was not pleased—I want to say the word “appalled”—that a threat was made about closing one of the schools. … The other thing was the pressure that was put on the employees and the unions. I thought that was not a good move for the city. It created a lot of discontent for employees; there’s an increasing morale problem that it really fueled.
I have a little bit different perspective on Prop 21/2, and this is based on a presentation that the mayor had arranged for the city during that debate. Prop 2 1/2 was designed so that there would be overrides. It was sort of a built-in thing—the need for additional revenue would force you to bring it back to the people. So it’s not a mechanism where you do it every year, but it is part of the overall design. I’m not saying I agree with the design, but it’s not like it’s a fluke.
In a Sept. 19 Daily Hampshire Gazette guest column by Ernie Brill, the Northampton high school teacher wondered why 43 EMTs and fire fighters were allowed to divide $452,000 in stipends when teachers’ contracts have not been honored in years. How would you reply to Brill?
MB: The mayor is the person who negotiates that contract. … The City Council is not usually privy to what’s in the contract. There are updates about what’s going on in executive session, but it’s not something that we weigh in on.
In the contract with the firefighters, there’s a formula for stipends, a clause [about] excess revenue and a mechanism for profit sharing. Those strike a lot of people as being very unusual in [a] public sector contract. I think that was something that the City Council, via the Finance Committee, would have had a larger discussion on… But apparently there was the decision to include that type of mechanism in a contract, and that was [former mayor Clare Higgins’] decision. Because other departments don’t have this excess revenue possibility, it really creates an imbalance.
DN: I did talk with Mr. Brill pretty extensively about this issue. … So the EMT contract is a system of reimbursing the EMTs set up in 2004, when the city first moved to providing an ambulance service. At the time, there was a great concern in the community about whether we could afford to do it; whether it would create a burden on the general fund. So the idea was to create a self-sustaining system. It was also a negotiation with the firefighters to take on this whole other level of work, and how would they be compensated.
[Research was done] looking at the different models in the industry, and this model of providing stipends based on your certification level was very common in communities around Western Mass and in the industry. And there was this additional clause [saying that,] if [the EMT service] was able to generate the revenue to pay for the capital expenditures and all the other expenses in running an ambulance service, there would be this additional per-call reimbursement.
So that was the structure put into place. I think it was sort of a shared risk sort of thing, between the city and the EMTs. That contract has been renewed. At the City Council, we were asked to transfer monies to pay for work that had already been done in the previous fiscal year. This has happened every year. It’s happened when Michael Bardsley was on the Council. And we’ve taken those votes knowing that we have to honor the fact that they’ve done the work under the contract. And I said at the time it’s an important discussion to have, and I think we need to revisit the system. … I think it needs to be looked at, but what I’m saying is it needs to be looked at in collective bargaining. And if the Council wants to talk about collective bargaining, it needs to be done in executive session.
How do you rate the city’s economic development efforts over the last decade? In terms of both results and process, what are the achievements and what are the failings?
MB: First and foremost, I don’t think our economic development plan is very focused. If you look in the budget at how the resources are spent, it is a very sort of confusing picture that emerges.
I think our economic development should really have a balance of pieces in there. I don’t think there’s been enough [done to support] local businesses. I think we could do a lot better job in attracting and promoting green businesses. There’s another whole other model for economic development in worker-owned businesses that I’ve been talking about for some time, and that isn’t reflected at all. There’s a resource at UMass: I’ve been to conferences and workshops there—I’ve never seen city officials there. I’m also going to promote a Hire-Local program. A lot of the jobs we have here go out—a whole wide range of jobs. So I think we’ve missed some opportunities. I don’t know if you’re looking for a letter grade, but I guess I’d say a C+.
DN: I do think we need to have a more focused strategy. One of the things I’ve talked about on the campaign is that we’ve done some great big-picture work on things like transportation and energy here in the city, and a lot of that came out of the Transportation and Parking Commission and our Energy and Sustainability Commission. … I’d like to form an economic development advisory committee, which we really haven’t had, to really focus on, what are the strategies we want to implement? What are the kinds of green businesses we want to attract? What are the key areas we need to target to, again, create more economic opportunity and jobs? …
I think there used to be a business visitation program that the city did where it went out and really tried to talk to local businesses in a really systematic way. … I think we also need to focus on things like tourism. There [are] a lot of great opportunities happening now with tourism. And then we have some regional opportunities. I think the Knowledge Corridor and the rail seems like it could be a really good engine for moving people, goods and services up and down the Valley.
I do think we’re doing well, though. I was just recently at a ribbon cutting at the Coca-Cola plant, where we created 100 new jobs in a product line that’s a certified free trade organic product they’re now making. Fifty of those people came off of unemployment.
Northampton’s population has not grown substantially in 50 years, but development has exploded. New construction and housing development seem to be key to many of the city’s economic development plans. What is your position regarding the city’s urban design challenges?
DN: Yeah, and this is true, and this is something that came out in our Sustainable Northampton plan. Whether you’re talking about homes or cars, the population is flat, but we have more cars. I think it’s just the structure of how people are living. Many people are having less children. Many people are retiring here from other places. Part of Sustainable Northampton is about looking at the areas of the city where we want to encourage growth and the areas where we want to try to [keep it] open and retain that open space character of the city. And also try to make sure that people are living close to where we can provide city services and city utilities, so that housing doesn’t become like a loss leader in terms of impact on the city budget.
I think this is a key issue, but the devil is in the details. I know that now as we’ve taken Sustainable Northampton, we had a zoning revisions committee that’s been going through—the big emphasis is that we have these neighborhoods that have grown up historically, many of which, if you were to build under the zoning today, you couldn’t do that. So how do we realign our zoning so that we can encourage the same kinds of neighborhoods that people like in Northampton and also focus on design, so that we’re getting the kind of buildings and outcomes that we want? … I think walkability and the ability to get around the city without having to drive in a car is important. Also, maintaining open space, recreational space, and agriculture, which is also a big part of our city.
MB: This is a topic that’s been under discussion for some time: the whole thing about growth and in-fill and sprawl. In terms of in-fill, which has become a buzzword, I think we need to link in-fill—and that’s usually talked about in terms of downtown neighborhoods—I think we need to link them to affordability. So if we’re allowing people to do in-fill projects, I think we need to [be] assured they are affordable. There are a lot of examples where that hasn’t happened.
The other thing with in-fill is that there is no guarantee that we’re preventing sprawl. There’s no mechanism there. You can have a developer come in and do an extensive in-fill, but that doesn’t stop a development happening out in Ward 6 or Ward 7.
When we’re doing developments, [we should be] looking at ways to reduce the number of [car] trips. I think one of the biggest concerns around development has to do with transportation traffic. I think Village Hill was a missed opportunity. It was supposed to be a village, and it was supposed to have facilities there where people could do their shopping and stay there. Through circumstances, though, that didn’t happen. I think we need to look at reducing the number of trips people are forced to make.
Two years ago, amid some public opposition, the City Council approved Northampton’s Business Improvement District. Now that the BID has been at work for a few years, what’s the verdict on its success? How goes the search for a permanent manager?
DN: My impression of what the BID’s been able to accomplish so far? I think they’ve done a lot of really great stuff. I think they’ve really focused on many of the issues around the cleanliness of downtown [with] the cleanup crews that are out every morning. They’ve been working on some beautification efforts, the perennial issues like lighting during the holidays. They’ve tried to work on some safety issues, graffiti issues. …
I think they are obviously trying to show the results of what they’ve done, and they’re trying to get new members. I think the concept is great in that these are business owners, property owners that really care about the district that they’re trying to operate in, and they’re basically saying they’re willing to raise their own taxes to pay money above and beyond our normal taxes. I think it’s a great model, and I know that they’re trying to expand and add … marketing stuff that they really want to do in terms of working to market the downtown and go to the next level.
MB: When the Council approved the BID, there were two votes. One vote was to give them the power to go ahead. Related to that, I went around and talked to downtown business owners to hear what they had to say about the BID. Overwhelmingly, the small business owners—whether they owned their store or not—were in favor of it. Some of them said they may not be able to afford it, but they were in favor of it because they thought there was a need. The need was expressed actually by Daniel Yacuzzo on two different occasions: he made a statement that in the past 10 years—which happened to be the duration of Mayor Higgins—the services downtown had deteriorated considerably.
I’ve met with the BID board recently. There is a lot of frustration and discontent with how the city has dealt with its responsibilities and obligations. The statement was made that having those responsibilities in writing hasn’t really changed the performance of the city any. I couldn’t bite my tongue, and I said, “I told you so.” I pledged to be the person in there working to make it work.
Currently, neither of you are employed full-time, nor have you been employers for large organizations like city government. How are you prepared to be the boss of an organization as big as the City of Northampton?
MB: I worked for 33 years in the public schools, specifically Amherst Regional. I had a number of responsibilities there, including department head and administrative assistant principal. I’ve done a lot of hiring; I’ve been on numerous hiring committees for superintendents, principals, and also staff that I was responsible for supervising. So I have hired, I have supervised, and, on more than one occasion I’ve recommended termination. So I know those responsibilities inside out, and I can step up to those challenges.
The key word for me when it comes to dealing with employees and people in management is accountability, and I will hold people accountable to their responsibilities.
There is on the books—and it hasn’t been in operation for a while, I forget the name of it now—but an employee committee, that there is supposed to be a group of people, including councilors who meet. And I will reinstitute that, so that there’s an entity where it can vent some of those concerns. And also look at pay structure, because I think our pay structure is out of whack.
The other thing I’m concerned about and more than qualified to do is to deal with is the employee morale situation. Because having worked in unions and having been a worker myself, I can relate to them and establish that dialog. I would go out and listen to them.
DN: I have a kind of diverse background in this area. [In] the Air Force, my specialty [was] field personnel administration, human resources, which is focused on managing a large organization. [We face] many of the same issues in our city HR department, whether it’s hiring, promotion, employee evaluation and customer services, which is another big part of the job. I have some background in that. I was a non-commissioned officer. I had supervisory training and those sorts of things.
And then, when I was working for John Olver, I directed his economic development staff, which was located in our three district offices, and managed the team in terms of putting together the goals and objectives that we needed to work on, traveling to those offices, working with each of them on projects that were happening in their areas of responsibility, and being part of the hiring process for new staff.
In terms of the city, obviously I’ve had the opportunity to work with many of the city’s department heads. I was the chair of the Transportation and Parking Commission. I chaired a committee with four of our major departments. I’ve worked extensively as a member of the Finance Committe on budgetary issues. I’ve served on hiring committees, promotion boards and other things in the city, so I feel I have a good understanding of the personnel system. I also feel like I have leadership qualities, in terms of when I’ve served in these capacities, I’ve been able to work with city employees, with city managers on projects, and really lead them towards trying to figure out how we can solve problems. I think that’s the most important job of a mayor. We hire really good professionals, really good staff, and I think we have a lot of them in the city. I think the key for the mayor as CEO to be able to sort of set the vision, create a work environment where people are working as a team to serve the taxpayers, and to try to supply the services that the city needs.
What is your evaluation of the role former City Solicitor Janet Sheppard played in the Higgins administration? Has that role changed under the current city solicitor, Elaine Reall? Would you retain Elaine Reall in that position?
DN: The role of the city solicitor is to be the city’s attorney, and also to be the mayor’s attorney, because the mayor appoints that attorney.
I think part of [any problem with the city solicitor] has been the City Council, and the leadership of the City Council, in terms of asserting itself. I know that there’s an issue around access to the city solicitor, and having access to City Solicitor Sheppard in terms of whether councilors [could] get advice? Could we approach her independently? There was always a concern that we weren’t able to do that.
In the time that I’ve been City Council president, I’ve really tried to assert the fact that the city solicitor is providing legal advice and that we should have access to her. And I’ve tried to assert that. I think Attorney Reall has been helpful to us—the City Council—when we’ve asked for advice.
And the executive session minutes issue that happened [in 2009, when then-City Solicitor Janet Sheppard allegedly ordered minutes to be destroyed and, amid subsequent controversy, resigned], I think that was a breakdown on the part of the City Council president. We didn’t have in place a procedure where the City Council president had control over our own minutes. We had kind of ceded that to the mayor. So one of the first things I did when I became City Council president is, I enacted a set of rules where I, the City Council president, would review executive session minutes on a quarterly basis, and I would release them. I have released dozens of executive session minutes, including minutes from 10 years ago that were never released, including [when] my opponent was City Council president.
Who would I select as city solicitor? I think it’s presumptuous of me to say who I would name. If elected, I want to have a process where I can meet with and try to reach out to find who might be prospective candidates for that job, and interview them, and select the person that I think can provide the best legal representation to the city.
MB: I have a great deal of personal respect for Janet Sheppard. I’ve worked with her over the years, and I have a high regard for her personally. The situation that we went through with the whole thing about the purged minutes and destroyed notes obviously caused some tension between us. … I stood up in that situation and I said, “Wait a minute, this is not right. There’s something wrong here.” I think that is an example of what happens when a mayor has been in [office] too long. That is, the professional relationships get clouded by personal and political relationships. I think that really goes to the imbalance in terms of not having term limits for the mayor, which I think is a major issue.
I will declare that the city solicitor position has been opened and ask people who are interested, including the current city solicitor, to apply. I also think we need to look at the way that position is staffed. It used to be part of the staff, a regular position. We went to a consultant model. That was supposed to be re-evaluated periodically; I don’t think we’ve done that in a while.
In terms of the executive session minutes, they are by nature covering things that cannot be revealed to the public or in some cases even the City Council. So we rely on the city solicitor to say, “This matter no longer has to be private; it can be released.” They need to give that message to the City Council president; it’s not the president’s responsibility to make that determination.
With casino gambling coming to Massachusetts, do you have a preference of locations for one in Western Mass? If one is built in Holyoke, what do you expect the impact to be on Northampton? What response do you feel may be needed?
DN: I’m not a fan of casino gambling. I don’t see it as a sustainable economic strategy. I do think it’s a possibility in Holyoke… I know that Palmer is obviously competing for it very hard as well. Palmer would probably be my preference…
We’re looking at the immediate impacts in terms of construction—I get all that—and jobs, yes, but in terms of the other costs that it brings. In terms of societal costs, the public safety issues, the traffic issues, and then, of course, the fact that it’s going to compete with our downtown as a destination, in terms of where are people going to come to spend their money. …
I think that I would try to make sure that we have a seat at the table regionally in terms of what the impacts are, and if there’s a developer who is going to come in and do a casino, that they have to be willing to work with not just that community but the surrounding communities to talk about what the impacts are going to be and what mitigation is going to be available.
MB: I applaud you for asking the question. It’s the first time it’s been asked, and it’s been sort of like the proverbial elephant in the room. I’ve been waiting for this. …
My concerns have always been about the economic and cultural impact a casino would have on Northampton. It could really have a serious negative effect on some of the restaurants here. On some of our shops. On our cultural events. That is of deep concern with me.
I know [when] we had some kind of vote about expanding Keno, David [Narkewicz] voted against that because, I think, at the time you said you were morally opposed. My opposition isn’t a moral position. It’s looking at the pragmatics of how this is going to affect us economically and culturally. So that’s where I would work with our local business and cultural folks to develop a plan, try to impact the plans that are being made elsewhere and come up with a strategy where we can cope. We have to be flexible. It looks like [casinos are] inevitable, and we need to be ready to deal with what’s coming down.
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See “Sparks Fly” for the heated conclusion of the Advocate debate.
